Martin Temple
Now, as I said at the outset, this session was very much about trying to put in some sort of context how design can and has illustrated the way it can actually involve itself in manufacturing and help manufacturing companies to do even better things. It’s meant to be stimulating.
Now, this room is full of people who actually could just as easily have been up on this stage and actually spoken about the sort of topics we’re talking about today so the next ten minutes or so is not designed to be a question session, asking me or our speakers a question specifically. It’s really meant to tap your ideas, your observations on what you think we at Design Council and the wider tent that we engage with should be taking on board, to think about how we actually take these things forward and make them do something tangible, make a difference as a consequence of this particular forum.
So I open it up to you for ideas rather than questions. Yes. If we could have the mic here. I should say, we’ve got a whiteboard on the back there so I will just be saying, whiteboard please.
Audience 1
Thanks very much. Well, my name’s Beverley Neilson [?] and I work for Birmingham City University and thank you all very much for your presentations. They’ve been really fantastic. What I’d like to say is that I was really interested to hear the Minister’s proposal for showcasing the fact that we have excellence in design, creativity, engineering during the Olympics next year.
We’d really like to be part of that in Birmingham and to support those activities. Obviously, we are the heartlands of production, creativity and design and so I would like to sort of ask that, what support are you providing from government for those activities and how can we be part of it?
Martin Temple
That’s a question in there, I think, actually. I think, to some extent, we heard some of that. I don’t know whether you want to pick up on that, Mark.
Audience 2
I’m assuming I’m vaguely miced so, yes, absolutely. I want to make sure that although, obviously, the eyes of the world are on London, nevertheless, we have a UK expertise so your note is… your bid is noted. I think I’ll put it that way.
Martin Temple
Nick and then over there.
Audience 3
Mic arriving. Okay. Nick Leon, Design London at the Royal College of Art and Imperial College. The Government is putting, through TSB and Biz, 200 million into the technology innovation centres. Now, what we’ve heard are some fantastic case studies from businesses that would, I think, describe themselves not as technology-pushed but really, truly design-led.
Now, this is not a question, it’s just an observational idea. It’d be fantastic to see design an integral part of every one of those technology and innovation centres so that the businesses that emerge can be, again, truly leaders like the exemplars we saw earlier today.
Martin Temple
I think, a very good observation actually, yes.
Audience 2
I’d just say, you’ve reminded me, we are intending to do precisely that.
Audience 3
the Design Institute?
Audience 2
We want to involve them, yes.
Martin Temple
Yes, sir.
Audience 4
I’m called Max Fordham. I’m a design engineer and I just think the discussion we’ve been having… I’d like to make the point that when you say design is flower-arrangement and when you say design is the details of how things are put together, those should not be divorced, those two. They’re all part of design.
Martin Temple
There’s all sorts of views around that one, let me quickly say. Over there and then here. Yes.
Audience 5
Thanks. Pete Storrich [?], Coventry University. Could design be included in other forms of business support, like business coaching for growth?
Martin Temple
Again, we’ll put that up on there. It’s a question to pick up and consider and see how it’s taken forward. Yes.
Audience 6
A world-class design and business centre starts with world-class education and the Government is in the process of cutting it off at the knees at the moment. I think that education should take its share of the pain so we need a new idea and I think that new idea could be about, instead of salami-slicing our education system out of existence, to actually create centres of excellence for different design disciplines which have more protected funding, rather than trying to spread the funding across everything.
Martin Temple
I think, again, we need to whiteboard that. This is absolutely an area that we are conscious of, it’s a role for the Design Council and that wider engagement we’re seeking, to make sure we do address this area. We touched on it earlier Jony Ives is a product of some of our history. Imperfect it might have been but it’s created a fantastic base for us. We mustn’t lose that. I’m going to…
We have an internet question, I think. Yes.
Audience 6
This is from our online audience through our blog. Bruce Renfrew suggests that we need more positive media coverage of manufacturing in the UK and whilst he agrees with Evan Davis that in terms of growth in the high-value sector, he thinks we should also be building capacity in the medium-value sector as well and we can do this through clever design, through digitised automation and use of robots and longer-term investment.
And one other comment from Sue Hewer, picking up on Chris Saunders’ presentation about recommending switching providers and how consumers are going to have to take on board new data. She wonders how that fits with an aging population, and is this an opportunity for service design, perhaps? Thank you.
Martin Temple
Okay, thanks very much. I think this press thing, I saw the Evan Davis thing. I thought that actually, it was a step in the right direction. Too often we do see these negative programmes. It did attempt to really start putting the positive thing. We’ve just heard today some fantastic stories that you just, we know they’re out there, it’s just we don’t hear enough of them so that’s, it’s an important point to take up. Yes, here.
Audience 7
It was refreshing to hear the Minister talking about design and intellectual property. I’ve rarely heard them used in the same sentence but I think that has been brought about by number seven in the Hargreaves review, which said that the role of IP in supporting this important branch of the creative economy has been neglected. And I wonder what the audience feels about taking a leaf out of the United States’ book, where we have, where they have an IP czar and where President Obama has put intellectual property as the United States’ single most important asset, whether there’d be support for that in this country, to have a champion or a czar for the intellectual property that underpins the creative industries, especially in the design sector.
Martin Temple
Very interesting point and I think the IP point is a very strong one indeed, which will strike a chord with a lot of people here. Yes. Hang on a sec. Yes, we’ll get… Yes. Because we can’t hear. Yes.
Audience 8
I’m Charlie Brennan. I’m a manufacturer of hi-fi equipment in Cambridge called Arcan [?]. Just one thing I’d like to mention, I think the incentives for a career in engineering are way lower than, you know, the £50,000 a senior engineer might make at our company compared to £100,000 for somebody who’s going to be a GP or £150,000 for a top barrister or beyond.
And if you’re going to actually take the best talent, you’ve got to be able to incentivise them for a really successful career. There isn’t enough money – and again, when Cambridge University, which we have some links with… The best and the brightest engineering graduates or physics are often working as analysts or are working in trading algorithms and hedge funds or so on and that’s where they make the money.
So if we want to make the business sexy so hey can go and get a job in Jaguar, there has to be more investment and more reward for the top talent.
Martin Temple
Yes, that’s a good point. Yes, there. Thank you. And then Eddie.
Audience 9
A very similar point. My name’s Rab Bennetts. I’m an architect and I’m also a trustee of the Design Council. We’ve heard a lot about the value of design, the value of good design particularly, but not heard much about the cost of design, which is perhaps a related point.
And there is a culture in this country, certainly amongst, in the construction industry, the architects and the engineers and so on, of choosing the lowest-cost way of designing something, especially in the public sector, when of course, that isn’t where we’re heading. We should be talking about the value of it, not just the lowest cost of it. And I’d be interested to hear some of the experience of manufacturers as to how much they put into design. How important is it? Is the proportion of cost going up over time with greater competition and innovation or is it being squeezed and squeezed like the construction industry?
Martin Temple
Question in there. I’m going to put you guys on the spot. Comment on cost. A lot of people say that, well, I think the comment was made earlier; the cost of not doing it… Yes.
Audience 10
Well, I’d probably argue that… the way you actually do. I think there’s a good deal … Certainly, when you talk about architecture, you look at buildings, you can see a lot of cost-cutting going on, for example. In our business, which is all about luxury products, it’s too obvious. You can’t get away with it.
Audience 11
Well, yes. It must be known that in the motor industry, everything is done to a cost, regardless, to the nearest penny, Ralph. Yes? Correct. And, you know, when we’re faced with these cost challenges, because our competitive field out there is huge, we have to become more innovative and find better ways of doing it. So cost is very much part of our remit. It’s a daily word to us. It’s quite normal.
Martin Temple
A renowned industry for that. No, one more and that was Eddie and then I’ve got the time schedule I must stick to.
Audience 12
Thank you. Eddie Obeng. I’m from Pentacle Virtual Business School. I’ve been listening to the conversation and there are a couple of threads which I want to pick up. One is on the education front and the other is on this relationship between design and – quote – everything else.
The first part, on the education front, is because I’m working with decision-makers, senior executives, people who run organisations, one thing which becomes very clear – and I think it came through from the Jony Ive conversation – is that their focus on the attributes, on the hard side sometimes misses the importance of innovation and design. And so for me, if we can find ways to accelerate that, we’ll see the returns coming in much faster than if we only focus the education on the younger population because the decision-makers can change the world now. So that’s one element.
I think it’s not just on the business side, I think also on the public sector side, and I’m sorry the Minister’s gone. But I think, in terms of the civil service and how they approach their thinking bout using design and innovation. I mean, who coaches them to understand? At least on the business side, we’ve seen with Jaguar, watching this team interact, they are a team.
On the civil service side, I have no idea what the connection is. Where’s the chief civil service design officer and who does he connect to? So I think there’s a really important educational point on that level.
And then the second part is, we need to always put design in the context of what people are trying to achieve. Importance of cost in some industries, not in others. The luxury side, perhaps, not so much. So I think for this community, we have to think of it not just from or point of view but also to try and consider how we can use innovation and innovation-led design to try and transform other industries and other sectors as well.
Martin Temple
Thank you very much, Eddie, for that good comment.
It’s now time to close this session. I hope you found it stimulating and interesting. I certainly have. I’m absolutely grateful to our presenters, Gerry McGovern from Land Rover and Ian Callum from Jaguar and Chris Saunders from Navetas, and also Mark Prisk for spending time to come and talk to us and listen to what was said and give us some views on the government side of things.